You can't. I apologize for the misleading blog title, but you can't.
Here's why:
People are really stubborn. People hate being wrong and people would rather lie than be wrong.
Theists, you can't really convert atheists to theists and same to atheists, you can't really convert theists to atheists.
Every single atheist I have talked to has discovered through independent research and questioning that god doesn't exist. I know many atheists that openly try to get people to learn their perspective and learn that god really doesn't exist, but it doesn't work because people are not just going to up and change.
Getting into arguments about this stuff online is really pointless too, because you aren't going to change the other person's mind.
When was the last time a Jehovah's Witness actually convinced you at your door?
People change their religions when left alone. When I was a Christian I probably wouldn't have become an atheist if a group of atheists approached me and maybe if they had, I wouldn't have ever become an atheist because I would've had this prejudice against them. Maybe I would've.
Just stop telling me about your religion or beliefs because it's not going to change mine. If I am interested in them, I will ask you. Do not get proactive about this kind of stuff.
This doesn't even have to be about religion or theism/atheism. This can be about anything.
Even a kid trying to convince another kid the colour blue is better than the colour green wouldn't be very successful.
Of course there is the odd time when trying to convince another person of something does work but that is not the likely case.
Even though I realize I can't convince all my theistic friends and family to become atheist, it won't stop me from talking about atheism whenever I want to. I am just not going to try to proactively hand them brochures or lecture them.
People aren't just going to switch sides. It takes time to make these decisions. My change from Christian to Atheist was gradual. I was an Anglican Christian, Christian, Spiritual Christian, Spiritual, Agnostic, Agnostic Atheist and now I am Atheist. This all happened in maybe a 3 month time span.
People don't just wake up and think "I'll try mormonism!" or answer the door and think "Sure! I'd love to attend the Church of Latter Day Saints!".
Open-minded people might. But even they aren't going to let go of their stability of their beliefs until they are ready to leap.
It's not impossible to convince other people, but it is highly unlikely.
If you actually came here to find out how to convince people of your philosophies, here is one tip:
Get close to them, but not close enough in which you will argue with them because then they won't talk back and they aren't overly comfortable with you so they won't question you too much. I find this works well with door-to-door people because they get friendly with you but you don't know them well enough to punch them in the face when they say something you think is stupid.
AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES don't be hostile towards another person if you are trying to get them onto your side of a belief system. This happens all of the time on the internet and it doesn't fucking work out so stop wasting your time.
This was a very professional blog post. It was just in my mind for a few days and I just spewed it all out right now. Sorry, I am not editing it.
Do you have any techniques to convince people? Do you think I am wrong in thinking it is hard to convince people to agree with your philosophies?
Here's why:
People are really stubborn. People hate being wrong and people would rather lie than be wrong.
Theists, you can't really convert atheists to theists and same to atheists, you can't really convert theists to atheists.
Every single atheist I have talked to has discovered through independent research and questioning that god doesn't exist. I know many atheists that openly try to get people to learn their perspective and learn that god really doesn't exist, but it doesn't work because people are not just going to up and change.
Getting into arguments about this stuff online is really pointless too, because you aren't going to change the other person's mind.
When was the last time a Jehovah's Witness actually convinced you at your door?
People change their religions when left alone. When I was a Christian I probably wouldn't have become an atheist if a group of atheists approached me and maybe if they had, I wouldn't have ever become an atheist because I would've had this prejudice against them. Maybe I would've.
Just stop telling me about your religion or beliefs because it's not going to change mine. If I am interested in them, I will ask you. Do not get proactive about this kind of stuff.
This doesn't even have to be about religion or theism/atheism. This can be about anything.
Even a kid trying to convince another kid the colour blue is better than the colour green wouldn't be very successful.
Of course there is the odd time when trying to convince another person of something does work but that is not the likely case.
Even though I realize I can't convince all my theistic friends and family to become atheist, it won't stop me from talking about atheism whenever I want to. I am just not going to try to proactively hand them brochures or lecture them.
People aren't just going to switch sides. It takes time to make these decisions. My change from Christian to Atheist was gradual. I was an Anglican Christian, Christian, Spiritual Christian, Spiritual, Agnostic, Agnostic Atheist and now I am Atheist. This all happened in maybe a 3 month time span.
People don't just wake up and think "I'll try mormonism!" or answer the door and think "Sure! I'd love to attend the Church of Latter Day Saints!".
Open-minded people might. But even they aren't going to let go of their stability of their beliefs until they are ready to leap.
It's not impossible to convince other people, but it is highly unlikely.
If you actually came here to find out how to convince people of your philosophies, here is one tip:
Get close to them, but not close enough in which you will argue with them because then they won't talk back and they aren't overly comfortable with you so they won't question you too much. I find this works well with door-to-door people because they get friendly with you but you don't know them well enough to punch them in the face when they say something you think is stupid.
AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES don't be hostile towards another person if you are trying to get them onto your side of a belief system. This happens all of the time on the internet and it doesn't fucking work out so stop wasting your time.
This was a very professional blog post. It was just in my mind for a few days and I just spewed it all out right now. Sorry, I am not editing it.
Do you have any techniques to convince people? Do you think I am wrong in thinking it is hard to convince people to agree with your philosophies?
Very interesting blog post Sarah. I am going to both agree and disagree with you.
ReplyDelete“Theists, you can't really convert atheists to theists and same to atheists, you can't really convert theists to atheists.”
I’m going to disagree with this statement. I listen to a lot of podcasts and interviews about atheism, and it is not uncommon for people to contact the show hosts, or authors and tell them that they were convinced to switch sides. But, what I think you are getting at here:
“Every single atheist I have talked to has discovered through independent research and questioning that god doesn't exist. I know many atheists that openly try to get people to learn their perspective and learn that god really doesn't exist, but it doesn't work because people are not just going to up and change.”
…is that most people aren’t going to abandon deeply-held beliefs after one conversation or Facebook debate. And that, I agree with. People generally do have to question and research and ponder through the issues, until they reach the tipping point.
I look at it as balance scale, with “Faith” on one side, and “Reason and Evidence” on the other. If things are added to one side or the other continually, then things eventually will reach that tipping point, at which time, a person can change their mind about an issue or belief.
“Getting into arguments about this stuff online is really pointless too, because you aren't going to change the other person's mind.”
This statement of yours, I disagree and agree with. I disagree that online discussions/arguments/debates are useless. They are useless, if all you want to accomplish is to change the mind of the person arguing with you. I agree, because usually the people who argue are pretty heavily invested and deeply entangled in their belief system. It would be pretty unbelievable if after one discussion you changed their mind and they left their religion, because there is no single magic bullet that deconverts believers. People and the way they think, are much more complex than that.
But, I have a different goal in mind, when I engage in religious discussions online. Once a week, I do a “Freethinker Friday” post, on Facebook, where I link to a video which calls into question the historicity of the Bible, the necessity of religion for morality… that sort of thing. Discussions usually ensue. Sometimes quite lengthy ones.
My goal with these interactions is not to convince the one or two very aggressive Christians who take me to task and debate me.
Everyone is on a continuum, when it comes to faith and reason. The mouthy ones are pretty far over on the faith side. I am after the ones who are the silent lurkers. They read, but don’t comment. They are believers, but they have doubts and questions. They are a bit closer, more or less to that middle of the range.
I want to drop some weights on the “Reason and Evidence” side of their scale. I want to move them a bit nearer to the tipping point. Inevitably, all Christians have doubts that they have stored up and suppressed. I keep kicking at the door so that one day their doubts can get out and run wild.
(continued in next post)
Thanks for the reply!
DeleteI like the idea/analogy of the tipping point, a lot. It does take time to eventually get that reasoning to tip to outweigh the faith.
I think the goal of my post was just to point to what you said, how people are "heavily invested and deeply entangled in their belief system". I think because of this it is a lot harder to tip the scales to get people on the rational side of things. People hate being wrong, people hate switching sides in an argument so getting through to these deeply entangled people is extremely frustrating and what I believe to be as a waste of time.
As I said, I gradually moved over to the atheistic side without other people pushing me. I think that in discussions (especially over the internet) between two people from completely different sides are time consuming at times because from my experience, they wouldn't have helped me to switch, if anything they would've just reinforced my original thought. This is mostly just because I'm stubborn, but none the less.
I have yet to come across a christian and/or theist that is looking for answers instead of a place to go to insult or argue with me as an atheist. I'm glad that people do contact you for this, though. It's great to know more people are starting to use the parts of their brains which question things and think rationally!
I think the "Arguer" type of internet Christians are the ones we end up interacting with, while those who actually are questioning are the "Invisibles". They are out there, but we may not find out what influence we had on them until much later (if at all) but they are out there. The beauty of blogging and other ways of putting our thoughts out there on the internet is the we have a variety of agnostics and atheists making resources available in their own unique way, and those resources will be be there for the seekers of truth. And, that is what you are doing with your blog. So, even though I kind of disagreed on a few points, it was really more about pointing out that there may be more going on than what meets the eye. Trying to reason with Christians can be very frustrating, for sure.
DeleteI've never thought of it that way to be completely honest. There probably are a few invisibles that have read a few of my posts and might have sparked a thought or two in their heads that help them kick start or help them question or continue thinking about their religious or theistic beliefs.
Delete(continued)
ReplyDelete“People aren't just going to switch sides. It takes time to make these decisions. My change from Christian to Atheist was gradual.”
I agree completely. For me it was an intense 7 months of study and questioning. I read and listened to all kinds of debates and discussions online, as well as books. Seeing the arguments back and forth helped me decide what seemed most rational.
Another reason I engage in discussions with theists online is to challenge their assertions, and require them to back them up with evidence. They have to put up or shut up, and the onlookers can watch, as they fail to back up their claims, and then resort to personal attacks or threats of hell and damnation. I argue, to unmask their baseless claims for the hot air they are.
The very cool thing is that I have people contacting me privately, after these discussions, to express their own doubts about Christianity, or to thank me , or to ask me to point them to resources where they can learn more. That tells me my strategy is working.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to writ such a lengthy response, but your blog entry caused me to think about what I do, and why, and that is always a good thing!